In this week’s YATA ( we read your boostagrams, emails, and notes, then put them straight to work. From defining heat‑punk(ery) with real-world examples to first-sats stories at a beachside Bitcoin meetup, I share how bringing freeze‑dried goods to a Lightning‑onboarding night turned into multiple first Bitcoin purchases—and why any maker should try selling for BTC. We also dig into small‑business realities: shipping costs, BTCPay pricing in USD while settling in sats, and the accounting headaches that vary by jurisdiction. Oshi riffs while we kick off a new mini‑series on the 12 Permaculture Principles—starting with Observe and Interact—and connect it to low‑time‑preference design in life and Bitcoin. We hit wallets for beginners (WoS, Phoenix), Nostr relay/DM reliability, value‑for‑value and Podcasting 2.0 boosts, sunscreen versus solar callus (plus why sunglasses can confuse your clock), and a quick Town Square shoutout to makers building for the circular economy.
- 'BTCPay Server': https://btcpayserver.org
- 'Wallet of Satoshi (Lightning wallet)': https://www.walletofsatoshi.com
- 'Phoenix Wallet by ACINQ': https://phoenix.acinq.co
- 'Podcasting 2.0 (Podcast Index)': https://podcastindex.org
- 'Fountain (value-for-value podcast app)': https://fountain.fm
- 'TakeMySats (BTC marketplace)': https://takemysats.com
- 'OCEAN Mining Pool': https://ocean.xyz
- 'Stacker News': https://stacker.news
- 'Nostr protocol (spec on GitHub)': https://github.com/nostr-protocol/nostr
- 'Amethyst (Nostr Android client)': https://amethyst.social
- 'Primal (Nostr client)': https://primal.net
- 'Domus (Nostr iOS client)': https://domus.me
- 'Permaculture: 12 Principles': https://permacultureprinciples.com/principles/
- 'The Art of Seeing — Aldous Huxley (overview)': https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Art_of_Seeing
- '"Two of Us" — The Beatles (song overview)': https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two_of_Us_(song)
- 'The Castle (1997 film) — overview': https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Castle_(1997_Australian_film)
- 'Brazil (1985 film) — overview': https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brazil_(1985_film)
- 'Oshi Goods (host site + episode archive)': https://oshigood.us
- 'Sats4Snacks (freeze‑dried goods & salves)': https://sats4snacks.com
- 'Heat Punkery': https://stacker.news/items/1500336/r/Undisciplined
Join us on Nostr: Oshi (npub1uzt238htjzpq39dxmltlx60vxym9fetk9czz6kddq6fhvkf4z3usy9qtrh) & Permanerd (npub1zqdpzty2mshxncqqxy2078qax6mlehsxmpx5095wtxw4tpepkr0s2ce6fj)
Send an email: sayhi@youarethealgo.com
[00:00:20] Permanerd:
Hello, and welcome to the Yotta podcast where you are the algorithm. You caught me off guard there. I was about to go and then you had a little ditty at the end. The, I'm Permanerd. I'm joined here by my good friend and tickler of the guitar strings, Oshi. How you doing, man? Doing good. Had to have a little fun thing in there, you know? Oh, yeah. It's it's so good, man. I'm I'm so happy that you introduced something
[00:00:51] Oshi:
with talent into this program. Yeah. Me too. I'm not sure if there's any other podcasts that bring out the Guitar Live. There's only one Yada.
[00:01:00] Permanerd:
There's only one Yada. How you doing?
[00:01:03] Oshi:
Yada! Doing good. Doing good. It was warm today. Holy hell. It's definitely summer here. That is for sure. I'm sweating like a dog just stepping outside. It's fine with me though. It's better than freezing.
[00:01:15] Permanerd:
It is. It's been fairly cold here, but it's supposed to get up to 35 degrees Celsius on the weekend, which is like a thousand degrees Fahrenheit, I think. Oh. My conversion might be a little bit off or it might be a decimal point. Yeah, a thousand thousand sounds really, really warm.
[00:01:36] Oshi:
Grab your sunscreen. Yeah. Actually, that gives me a good idea for the town square.
[00:01:43] Permanerd:
Oh, nice. Cool. Alright. Foreshadowing. Yep. We do this podcast every Friday. We record and then put it out Saturday mornings, and we've been pretty consistent at it, which has been good. But we also follow the mindset of value for value, and that just means that we hit record, talk out of our mouth holes, and put it out into the ether. And if anybody finds any value in it, then you can return that in any way that you can. We accept any type of value. And that could be sharing the show. It could be sending us a note on Noster.
It can be sending an email, which we actually have more foreshadowing at sayhi@urthealgo.com, or the preferred method is boosting on a modern podcasting two point o enabled app, which allows you to send boosts and boostagrams in which a boost is just a a small amount of Bitcoin, and we're happy to help you set that up if needs be. But that'll lead us right into the boostograms that we've received from the last show. We talked to you last time, and the first one is 318 sats from local Bitcoiners. And this is from episode nine, Planting an Orchestra.
Great name. Yeah. It really is. You you've mentioned that during the show, and it's I've been thinking about it a lot, actually. And I'm hoping I'll I I don't know. I'm I'm I don't like saying that I'm gonna do things because I never get a chance to do them. But I'm gonna do something with that name. Do it. Take it. And the boostogram attached to it is listening to yada exclamation point. Thanks. Well, thank you, LocalBitcoiners. We've been there's been a lot of cross pollination, I think, with LocalBitcoiners.
It's been awesome. I've been boosting all their shows and basically game they they they've gamified their boosts and whatnot. And so I've been taking advantage of that to make myself feel better by getting towards the top of a leaderboard of some kind.
[00:04:10] Oshi:
What
[00:04:12] Permanerd:
position are you? Oh, that's personal. Oh, on the leaderboard? Well, I've boosted every one of their episodes, so I think I'm at the top of the the number of episodes boosted. But they're getting some pretty heavy. Nice. Yeah. They're getting some pretty heavy boosts. I think they got a 100,000 for one of their shows. So we're we're looking for whales. Any any whales wanna throw us some stats, we're we're open to it. That's what's bringing down the Bitcoin price. Come on. Oh, man. But it's rev it's it's Rev Hoddle and Reed BTC.
And it's a it's a it's a good show. If you're not listening to it, you should be local Bitcoiners. And then ironically enough, the next boost is 2,100 sats from said Reed BTC. And it says, permanent, how much does shipping to The US cost? What fraction of your business ends up shipping to The US? Should should collab with Oshi and have him help with US shipping? Love the pod boys. That's
[00:05:23] Oshi:
an idea because I do that with Bitcoin. Yeah. And I'm all for
[00:05:26] Permanerd:
oh, she paying for my shipping. Yeah. That's how it works. Right? But the to answer the first question, how much does shipping to The US cost? For a a single order for me is about 21 US dollars, which is a little bit cheaper than it cost to actually ship in Canada. And I I need I need to work on my pricing because I've been eating all of these costs along with the, before the tariffs. And I well, it's just that working on the website and getting it. I think it is you can tell me this, actually. In BTC pay server, you can you price in in dollars and then have the it show up as SATs on the website? Is that how you do the dynamic pricing? That's how I have mine Yeah. That's alright. Maybe I should just do that. Mhmm. Helps.
Yeah. I mean, I don't I just I don't like to have anything, you know, related to Fiat involved in it, but I think I might have to just I to
[00:06:36] Oshi:
can't remember if I have it configured. I mean I have in BTCPay the USD price, so it's just stable that way. And then I think it's somewhere in the code base where it automatically converts. I can't remember if it's that or if BTCPay is doing that for me. I'm pretty sure it's somewhere in the code, but you are able to do it because that's how I have my instructions. And I've seen other ones too. In, like, the Bitcoin and podcast, he was doing
[00:07:04] Permanerd:
I think it was Kid Warp's Vanilla Paste, and he was talking he was he was, in real time giving the price, and it was just fluctuating with any sort of Bitcoin movement, which is kinda funny. And then to answer the second part, Reid, most of my shipments go to The US. I mean, I've only had a few Canadian orders. So get on it people in Canada or anywhere in the world. I kinda wanna do some international shipping and and try that out be, apart from The US.
[00:07:39] Oshi:
I've shipped to, what was it, Norway recently? Shout out to my friend Anders. Yeah. Pretty cool shipping to other people around the world, but, you know, it's kind of expensive.
[00:07:50] Permanerd:
I would imagine so. Not kinda. Yeah. It is. You're also shipping glass jars
[00:07:57] Oshi:
as well which Yeah. I am. Sometimes it's chocolates or but yeah it is the glass jars. I actually got some new boxes so hopefully the packaging is a little bit more solid. I'm always trying to improve the packaging front because you know, would use newspaper because it's free and it works perfect.
[00:08:17] Permanerd:
But yeah. I remember getting an order I got from you and checking out the produce prices from the newspaper that was in there.
[00:08:28] Oshi:
Yeah. Kroger's got the good prices, man. Nice.
[00:08:33] Permanerd:
The the next oh, look at that. The next boost is 2,100 sats again from Reed BTC. And it says, great to hear about y'all's meetups. It came up again on the latest episode of Local Bitcoiners episode 15. Oshi, are you anywhere near Columbia, South Carolina meetup?
[00:08:54] Oshi:
Mhmm. Yeah. I am actually. Maybe,
[00:08:56] Permanerd:
you know, not not too far, but I would definitely be down to check out those folks. I don't really know anybody personally there. Awesome. Well, if you're part of the the Columbia, South Carolina meetup, let's throw us a note and Yeah. Send a a proper invite because, oh, she doesn't go anywhere without a gold embroidered invite.
[00:09:17] Oshi:
Embroidered?
[00:09:18] Permanerd:
Seal of Embroidered? That doesn't sound right. Embossed?
[00:09:21] Oshi:
Embroidered? A a bomb?
[00:09:25] Permanerd:
Deep cut. Deep cut. Taking her back. And the next boost is 333 sats from bullish clips. These are all these are all from fountain. And it just says adding to the takemysatsjar.com. And then we got a Certified c chord. I love it. Love it. Then we got 420 sats from undisciplined. And it says here's a nice little history of the heat punk movement by the great scores be. And then it gives a a link to a Stacker News article number to put into the show notes. So basically, it's trying to find useful applications for what would otherwise be waste heat, particular from bit Bitcoin mining devices.
Also, thanks for checking out the Stacker Sports pod. Sorry. It's one of the one with a catastrophic audio failure though. Yeah.
[00:10:26] Oshi:
I know. Yeah. We
[00:10:28] Permanerd:
know that all too well around here. Only once though. But thank you, undisciplined, for the definition. I know we were we were struggling with that from the last episode. And I think someone else mentions it down here, and I will give my take on it in just a and then there's 1,110 sats from RevHoddle, also a local Bitcoiner. And it says, I miss an episode, and it's the one you guys give a mass massive shout out to local Bitcoiners. Pretty sure that's every episode, isn't it? Yeah. Pretty sure it's every episode. And I'm alright with that.
And it says this is the hashtag value chain. High velocity exchange builds capital, especially if that exchange causes a chain reaction of capital to propagate. Not just financial capital, BTC, but also intellectual, experiential, social, cultural, spiritual, etcetera. This is how the world we want to live in gets built by participation and cooperation, big or small. The key right now is velocity in my opinion. Rev Hoddle's smart, dude.
[00:11:40] Oshi:
Yeah. He's smart. He said s m r t. But I like it. S capital m r t.
[00:11:50] Permanerd:
And that was actually something that I was going to bring up today in our permaculture section is the the different forms of of capital. But I decided to go a different a different way, but this will definitely be coming up at some point is the is the different forms of capital, which are is kind of another, concept that you learn in in permaculture because capital definitely is not just, you know, financial.
[00:12:22] Oshi:
Mhmm. It's all energy at the end of the day.
[00:12:24] Permanerd:
It is. And and, yeah, just, you know, building up. Yeah. Though, we'll we'll talk about it another time. Otherwise, we'll be here all day doing this. And then we've got our friend Jim Seifert with his ten thirty three sats. Thank you, Jim. And it says, what a great episode. You know what? I agree with you. I've been studying permaculture since Jack Spearco introduced it to me fifteen years ago. Observation is a big part of permaculture. Look at what grows near you. If there's an equivalent you like, grow that. Diversity is key. Also, Spearco introduced me to doctor Ken Berry and the keto carnivore proper human diet.
I am one of I am one of the 80 plus pound success stories. Yes. That's right. I lost 80 pounds eating beef, butter, bacon, and eggs. Blood work improved. Wow. It is the way.
[00:13:22] Oshi:
Fantastic.
[00:13:23] Permanerd:
That's sick. Yeah. It's so so good. Congrats. And it's so simple. I mean, right there, the only thing you need to know is eating beef, butter, bacon, and eggs. You got
[00:13:34] Oshi:
mean, honestly. It's
[00:13:35] Permanerd:
just dedication and how bad do you want it? Yeah. And and it's it's definitely tough at first. I mean, seriously, sugar is Yeah. Is one of the most addictive substances on earth. And Mhmm. So you will feel it when you stop eating it. And there is something to be said for the keto flu, which a lot of people will get in the first couple weeks when you stop eating sugar. And it's basically a withdrawal from sugar. And it's terrible. But once you get past it, you're like, oh, jeez, okay. I don't even have the, you know, I don't have the urge to eat that donut anymore.
So good job, Jim. Yeah. That's, that's awesome, man. Eighty pounds is, is nothing to say. It's really not. I don't even know, I can lift 80 pounds.
[00:14:23] Oshi:
Honestly, my, my food processor is actually 80 pounds. So
[00:14:28] Permanerd:
that's a lot of weight, man. Jim, you lost the weight of a food processor. Nice one. You're processing, man. The next boost is three eighteen from Rev Hoddle again. Said the Yada podcast is developing a nice intersection of many topics I love all in one place. Noster, Bitcoin, permaculture, and value for value. Definitely moved up into the immediately listened tier of the hashtag 40 h p w, which is forty hours per week. It's a a podcast listening hashtag. It feels like building friendships through a podcast, which is cool. By the way, a heat punk is someone who uses the heat from Bitcoin mining for productive means. Many simply heat their homes in cold weather, but I am drying laundry, heating water, dehydrating food, medicine, growing plants, etcetera. A very permaculture way to mine Bitcoin.
Hashtag v four v. Hashtag value chain. Hashtag permaculture. Sorry, Jim, but Rev Hoddle had more hashtags than you did in that one. Yeah. He's got your beat, man. Follow Rev Hoddle on Noster, and you won't be disappointed. Like, just looking at what he's building and the projects that he does is pretty fantastic. Smart fellow, that guy. Really is. And then here's the last one. It's from it's 776 stat stats stats from Bemis. Bemis. And it says heat punk, someone who is using their miner to heat their home, hot tub, sonic, etcetera. Basically earning Sats through mining and directing directing, applying the heat for use in some manner.
[00:16:07] Oshi:
Man, we got a lot of replies on that question. It is. That's good. I think we both I think we both understand what it is Well,
[00:16:14] Permanerd:
I've understood what it is. I've I've been a heat punk. I've done heat punkery, but I didn't know what it was called. Last year, I used an s nine miner to heat my greenhouse in the spring and ended up I I had hooked it up to the ocean mining pool and ended up with, I don't know, I think like $202,100 bucks worth of Bitcoin, something like that. $15,200 over the spring from heating the greenhouse, which I think more than more than paid for the well, I don't know about that. But it was it was great. It was really fun to do, and I almost burned it down because I don't have proper power out to our garden. So I was running a long ass extension cord, and it almost melted the I've done that a couple times. Be careful with electricity, folks. It can be dangerous.
Yeah. Don't put a 150 feet of of extension cord plugging into a hot tub or a a Bitcoin miner. Yeah. Don't do that. So, yeah, I am, I have practiced heatpunkery, and thank you for everybody that has let us know what it is because it just proves that you can do something and not know what it is. The more you know. And that is all of the boost. Thank you, everyone. We use these to pay for any of the expenses that that come out from this podcast, which there are a few and there might be more eventually if we need to host a website, all that fun stuff. So thank you.
And we also have the email, which I mentioned before, which we'd never gotten an email through except for this time. Now we are officially email recipients. We're growing up. Did you want to read the email? That was that was your cue. Oh.
[00:18:21] Oshi:
Yeah. Yeah. I'll read this one. This is this is from my friend Ivor or your friend Ivor. I guess my Let's friend now see. The email says, and it's quite a long one, but I'm gonna read it just because why not. It says, hey, guys. Just listened to your latest episode, Too Old To Toggle, and was intrigued by the conversation on why small businesses are reluctant to accept Bitcoin. It occurred to me that accounting equation might be a factor. According to the tax rules in my country, and I'm pretty sure they would be very similar to those that apply in The USA, Canada.
The minute you accept a Bitcoin sale transaction, you are entering into a barter transaction. Accounting for bartered goods is quite frankly a nightmare. I believe it. Needless to say, pushing a Bitcoin to enable pushing a button to enable Bitcoin POS transactions is really only the beginning. The real issue to me would be how is the business going to account for these transactions? And does my accountant understand how to do this properly so I don't go to jail? And does my accounting software do this off the shelf or will I have to pay for an extra license?
It's far easier for businesses, for business managers to run their business off the P and L using the FIA system they're used to and not go to all and not go all the bother of integrating the Bitcoin barter system into their ledger. It's a good opportunity for a savvy accountant programmer to provide a Bitcoin integrated accounting service so that small businesses can integrate accounting for Bitcoin into their accounting systems without having to worry about the additional cost or the FBI knocking on their door at tax time. The real question is whether the proprietary accounting software systems like Xero or MYOB, QuickBooks, etcetera are even capable of integrating these transactions into their code base.
Loving the podcast guys, especially OC's Guitar Work. Opening song suggestion for next time is Two of Us by the Beatles. I did a pygmy.
[00:20:34] Permanerd:
I don't know. I was trying to figure that out too. That's okay. So last time it was heat punkery that we didn't understand. And now this one ends with I dig a pygmy in full caps explanation point. So Ivor is in New Zealand, and they're a bit weird. So if anybody has a definition for I dig a pygmy. I see why you wanted to read it. It says that he especially likes your guitar work.
[00:21:04] Oshi:
Oh, yeah. So But
[00:21:10] Permanerd:
Thanks, Ivor. Appreciate that. Yeah. And thanks for the email. First one. First one. And it was a good one too. I I I think it was Yeah. Pretty apropos as far as for me anyway because I just went in and talked to my accountant Because I decided last year that I was going to start accepting Bitcoin for products, and I kinda just went YOLO and didn't look at anything in Canada as far as tax codes or how it would be how it would affect, well, as he said, going to jail. And what I learned here is that once you accept Bitcoin for payment, the fiat equivalent of the Bitcoin, the conversion rate is what you use for your taxes.
And then that Bitcoin, if you don't sell it straight away, it becomes an investment for the company. And now it will be once it if it's ever sold, then that will be subject to capital gains taxes. That sounds different than what he's talking about about the a barter transaction.
[00:22:20] Oshi:
And so I think that the the Yeah. I'm I'm not even familiar with that term personally.
[00:22:25] Permanerd:
Yeah. I I don't know if it's like an in kind or, you know, like, I don't I don't know. But I think the the main point is that every jurisdiction probably has different set of of guidelines and rules. So make sure that you figure that out if you're going to be, like, legitimate a legitimate business. And I have, you know, I have no no qualms about anybody in a gray market and not reporting all of this stuff, but I've just I've I've chosen to go into more of a legitimate model because who knows why.
[00:23:06] Oshi:
Canada. Canada is why. Canada. That the is that the episode title? Canada is why.
[00:23:19] Permanerd:
Cool. Thanks again Ivor. And that is Yeah. I think that's all the feedback. I don't know if there's any Nost or note. I don't think so. I can't recall any. In the vein of transparency, we like to I don't even know if that's right. I've said that, like, quite a bit. I don't know. We like to go over the stats just to because it's it's fun and it might give an idea as to the behind the scenes for anybody that's interested that's listening. Yeah. And and how popular we are. Yeah. Right. Our popularity is growing. No. No. We're we're pretty stagnant.
[00:23:56] Oshi:
Yeah. Yeah. Come and subscribe. I'm trying. Smash that like button.
[00:24:00] Permanerd:
Yeah. Smash it. Don't forget to subscribe.
[00:24:05] Oshi:
Yeah. Share with friends. We'll honestly share Everybody
[00:24:09] Permanerd:
love so our all time downloads and this is through from podhome.fm where we host this show. Our all time downloads are at 5,716. Woah. And that the the last episode planting an orchestra, we are at 588 downloads. Wow. Sick. That's really cool. That was that was much better than the two before this was not great. But the episode Too Old to Toggle was our last episode, and that's up to 694. And then the next one was four sixty six, which was a bit of a a trench. And the all time high was Fearless Circular Economy, which is at 798 downloads. So we need two people to listen to that. Get it up to 800 so that we got a nice round number.
Apple Podcast and Domus are the still the the dominating players that's into and, wow, Apple Podcasts or Apple iPhone is still at 76. Cray cray. And we've got a new bottom of the list one download in Saudi Arabia. Oh, cool. So we're still looking for messages. Say hi from anywhere that is a little bit more obscure for most people. Yeah. Like Vanuatu or Lithuania. I mean, Ethiopia. Or Chad. Do we have Chad on here? Chad. Yes. If you're in Chad, let us know. Chad, hit us up, Chad. And then that's all the stats. Then the next thing thing for this this area of the show is the Lykem Joe. Oh, let's go. And since I didn't get it done for the last show, we've got two here. And so we've got episode eight.
And Oshi had three three thousand nine hundred and twenty two words with 22 actually, let me know. Do that. It's 13 fillers. That's a point 59%. That's three ums and 10 likes. And then Permanerd with I'll let it slide. You're still under a percentage. That's under a percent. Permanerd, 4,801 words with 12 fillers. And you're you know what? Yours is actually lower than that. Need to get rid because I still have the uhs, and so it's counting those as well. Inflation. Inflation exactly. Which works out for me because apparently I didn't have any uhs. So gotcha.
And I've got 12 legitimate fillers for a point 25%, and that's three ums and nine likes.
[00:27:00] Oshi:
Nice. And
[00:27:02] Permanerd:
then for episode nine, you've got 3,671 words, 20 fillers, point 54%, and that's one and 18 likes.
[00:27:13] Oshi:
18.
[00:27:15] Permanerd:
So you're right at that half a percentage, half a percent. And then and then I had 7,000 words exactly, and that was a large diatribe about permaculture. Yeah. With six fillers for a point 09%. And that's no ums and six likes. So Okay. That that's setting the bar, my friend. Yeah.
[00:27:39] Oshi:
I lick it. Put the fire under me.
[00:27:42] Permanerd:
And the point of this Lykem jar is that eventually we're going to have we're keeping track of all of them and eventually we're going to have some wallet or some other method of we're putting in 20 sats per,
[00:27:55] Oshi:
like Let's make it 21. Let's make it 21. Sounds better. Yeah. I don't know why I ever said 20. It should be 21.
[00:28:03] Permanerd:
Into this wallet and then we'll we'll figure out what to where to donate
[00:28:08] Oshi:
them to. We should do a polling for what dev to donate I
[00:28:13] Permanerd:
think we should get the jar sorted first.
[00:28:17] Oshi:
Yeah, we should probably do that. I should use, or I should maybe try out the new Kimi 2.7 for building it. Save my tokens because Claude is pretty
[00:28:28] Permanerd:
hungry. I've been hearing things about just how many tokens people are burning through like corporations. It's like a half $1,000,000 a month. Yeah. Just ridiculousness.
[00:28:39] Oshi:
It's yeah, it's crazy. They just released a new Fable five, I think, which is, I don't know, amazing apparently, but I don't know.
[00:28:49] Permanerd:
Power hungry on the tokens to be sure. Cool. Well, thank you again just to everybody for your support. It is amazing to hear from everyone. And, yeah, let's, move past this part. You got a little ditty to play us out. Next.
[00:29:19] Oshi:
What do you got? You wanna talk about your legendary Bitcoin meetup? Your first one, which was like a grand slam apparently.
[00:29:26] Permanerd:
Yeah. I went to my first Bitcoin meetup that I've been trying to go to for a couple months, but it just hasn't worked out. And it's the Comox Valley local Bitcoin meetup. And it's about it's about an hour and ten minutes drive. And I decided that from listening to other people, including yourself, I mean, you and the the local Bitcoiners are kinda gave me the push to actually go out and do it. And Mhmm. Also to make sure that I took some some goods that could be purchased for Bitcoin to the the meetup. And so I got there, and it was at a beach, which was nice. And there's a little pavilion with a couple of cooking tables. There were a couple there's three guys sitting in there, and so I kinda just loitered kind of on the fringes listening to their conversation. And then once I determined that, it sounded like it sounded like people talking about something that that this group may be discussing.
I went over and introduced myself. And and then by the end of it, was probably 12 or 14 people that came through. Holy cow. That's a big That was good. And then it turned out that that the plan for that meeting was to get people that didn't have Lightning wallets, get them installed with some wallets. And then one guy had brought, some drinks to sell, some sodas and and things like And and then their plan was the plan was to just sort of shuffle SATs around to get people familiar with QR codes and just doing transactions.
And so after the presentation and and then when they're discussing the the wallets, then I was like, took out my backpack. I was like, you know what? I got some stuff here. Sure. Yeah. I just opened a few packages for samples, and then it was it was amazing, man. Like, I I transferred one guy a couple bucks worth of sats for his first Bitcoin ever and then, you know, sold Awesome. Sold some, some products. And for a couple people, maybe three, it was their first Bitcoin purchase ever. It was It so was so good. Like, the selling of the product, okay, whatever. But just being involved in it and and contributing and Right.
And it also made me realize that, you know, if you are boosting a podcast, if you are buying products with Bitcoin, if you're selling products with Bitcoin, you can contribute to a meetup, and you and you should. Like, go out you know, I was a little bit Mhmm. Not apprehensive, but, you know, you just kinda wonder what it's gonna be like and whether I can contribute to this meetup, you know. And and even if you can't, that's great too. You're there to learn, and everybody is more than willing to help out. But if you do if you do possess that those that knowledge or those skills, then, I mean, it was great because I just, like, stepped in and could help people and actually contribute to the learning of of people that were there because they were interested.
[00:32:41] Oshi:
Mhmm. Yeah. That's awesome. My favorite thing is being the first to introduce something to somebody like that. Know, it's, you're giving them step one of a whole new perspective on, you know, their understanding of Bitcoin, even perhaps their life. Who knows? You could really change the trajectory of someone's life if they understand this thing by experiencing
[00:33:06] Permanerd:
this simple transaction. You never know. And that was what one of the ladies said. And I ended up I sold the first Bitcoin I've ever sold and it was $20 for this lady that was there and wanted to wanted to put Bitcoin in her wallet. I mean, yeah. Sure. Of course. You know? I don't I I don't sell Bitcoin, but here, I'll take your $20, and I'll put it into your wallet and to just Yep. And just the amazement and the like, it's kind of a you know, you can't see look this look in their eye. Like, I don't know what what's gonna happen, what this is. And then I just saw the light just flicker. And then, like, all of sudden, the recognition of, oh, wow. That was easy.
And then and then Mhmm. You know, this the instantaneous payment, like, oh, man. Okay. I'm starting to understand
[00:33:56] Oshi:
the appeal of this. Yeah. Yeah. Guys, it's like Venmo, you know, it's just better.
[00:34:03] Permanerd:
And also if you do go, I mean, I've been telling everybody lately, like somebody has something and like, this same lady, she was talking about how she and I I don't remember her name and I apologize. But she was had gotten some some organ meat for free, I think, from a butcher. And she freeze dried it and made dog dog treats Woah. From it. And Cool. And it was kinda that same look once you realize the the way that Lightning worked or just how how easy and and flawless it was. And I said, well, you you should sell it for Bitcoin.
And I tell that to, you know, just telling that to everybody that has anything and they go, oh, I I made this. Right? Sell it for Bitcoin. Oh, wait a minute. And just spreading that out there too.
[00:34:52] Oshi:
Mhmm. Yeah. It's it's that it's that simple. I'm curious what wallets were these guys using or teaching? Well, there was some talk about Cake Wallet
[00:35:02] Permanerd:
and then I think it was mostly wallet of Satoshi just for the ease of use and being able to convert on chain to Lightning without needing to run relays or nodes or
[00:35:15] Oshi:
channels, opening channels, all that fun stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Another good one I would probably recommend people to look into is Phoenix. It's like another one where you don't have to open channels and manage stuff like that. Because that does add a bit of complexity for people. I can understand how some may not want to get to that or they're not ready for that yet, but there are some wallets that manage channel liquidity automatically for you like that. Yeah. And that is the biggest the biggest hit. It really is. It was for me for starting out.
[00:35:46] Permanerd:
That's really cool though. Yeah. And I mean, it was also interesting because, you know, there's there's names of of people that you hear or, you know, if you're if you're listening to Bitcoin content or tangentially Bitcoin content, then you hear names. And one of those and I I need to yeah. I need a better brain. But, was Bitcoin Mechanic, and he was actually there. So that's his local
[00:36:16] Oshi:
meetup. And so I Really? That's wait. That's his go to local he lives in that area? Oh, that's wild, man. I didn't realize that. Yeah. And then and then another,
[00:36:27] Permanerd:
Joyce Dawn, which is his partner's wife, is one of the the, organizers of the meetup. And so I had quite a a long conversation with her. And, yeah, it was it was awesome. I mean, you never know who you're gonna meet. And I I feel like now if as deep as I want to get into the Bitcoin knowledge, you know, I feel like there's that resource available.
[00:36:57] Oshi:
Oh, for sure.
[00:36:58] Permanerd:
And then and then another you can follow him on on Noster's is Forest Hoddle. And he was there. And I don't I don't remember everybody else's names, and I don't know I know that that those three have, been been mentioned publicly through for the meetups. So I don't you know, I'm not doxing anybody I don't think. Mhmm.
[00:37:25] Oshi:
It sounds like a bumpin' little meetup though. It's definitely a wealth of resources. It really is. And
[00:37:31] Permanerd:
yeah. And and John as well will go with that. John is one of the organizers, he was really great. It it just felt it was very welcoming. You know, I had my my bag full of freeze dried goods underneath the table, and I didn't wanna just bust it out. And then it just it was serendipitous, though, that that that is what that meeting was about. And I mean, it just felt like, okay, there's a reason I wasn't able to make it for the last two months when I tried to, and this popped up there. Mhmm.
[00:38:02] Oshi:
Yeah, man. I love how things happen like that. They just kinda just magically happen. Just happens to work out every time. Yeah. I never, as a as a younger lad,
[00:38:14] Permanerd:
I never appreciated it or would recognize when something like that happened. You know, sometimes it's easier to to focus on the negative things or, oh, man, I can't believe that happened. And then kinda just gloss over
[00:38:29] Oshi:
things that that actually line up. Yeah. Lately for me, I've I've been focused more on that in the past few years, just paying attention to more kind of synchronicities kind of things and the way that things line up. They're so peculiar every time it happens. The more they happen the more amazed I am that this thing works the way that it does. It's crazy. It just points you in the right direction sometimes and sometimes those moments come and go. Sometimes they don't come around for a while and then sometimes they do. It happened to me the other day and yeah I'm always thankful for when it does and when it does I'm by the end of the day, I'm giving gratitude to just kind of things like that. I go through a list of things and it's usually when those things happen where the intensity
[00:39:17] Permanerd:
of the gratitude is just immense. I just really appreciate it. You get out of your comfort zone and you don't know what will happen. Yep.
[00:39:26] Oshi:
That's the way. That's why I, that's why I kind of promote the cold shower thing in the mornings. It's not so much the health stuff. It's more of just to get yourself used to doing something uncomfortable and just doing it. And it's free. I think people should just do it. Yeah,
[00:39:42] Permanerd:
it is. It's free. It's actually cheaper than taking a hot shower. You go. Save money, shower cold.
[00:39:50] Oshi:
Yeah. It just makes challenging things a bit more, I don't know, not easier, but something that you're welcoming. Life, man, you know? It's not easy. No. Not always.
[00:40:03] Permanerd:
You gotta gotta condition yourself a bit. You had mentioned something when we were talking before about a farmer's market that you went to? Oh yeah. Yeah.
[00:40:13] Oshi:
Thursdays. Every Thursday there's a local farmer's market here in town I go to. I usually pick up some milk or carrots from some of the farmers. But I was kind of walking around asking a few other merchants. There's a guy who sells vanilla paste and vanilla bean stuff. He used to actually own an ice cream parlor back in the day from what he was saying. Really nice guy. And I was kind of thinking in his brain about how many units he sells. Same with the there's a lady that sells honey there as well. Was talking to her. And I was just curious about how many units these people sell at the market because I was kind of thinking of whether or not I should do this. Should I attend the market? Because believe it or not, I've actually never done a farmer's market for what I make and people have been telling me, you should do the farmer's market. And I'm just thinking to myself, yeah, but the hurdles of paying, you know, the general liability insurance and yada yada of expenses and I don't know, it just kinda kept me away for a while but now I'm feeling that I should probably do this so I was asking them numbers and so it was helpful insights for sure that I was getting from asking them about the units and stuff like that. So I don't know. I think I may do the farmers market pretty soon. We'll see.
But I think it would be good. I would definitely crush it. I know I would. Best thing. Like I'm pretty confident I would do a really great job at it. Especially the free samples. You know, like people love free samples. Same thing with your stuff. Have you ever done Farmers' No. Well, I have not for
[00:41:48] Permanerd:
actually, I don't know about Farmers' I've done a lot of a lot of craft fairs and and things like that for nonprofit, money making.
[00:41:58] Oshi:
Mhmm. So I, I know what it's like to sit behind a, a table and talk to hundreds of people that walk past. Yeah. Yeah. I I've done that plenty of times, you know, standing behind the table, selling stuff, saying the same kind of line for six hours. So I have experience of that, years of that to be honest. So it's not so much that that's keeping me away. I enjoy talking to people. I love pushing my product that I really support. I believe in the thing. I really think the thing that was keeping me away is just the whole rigmarole of permits and whatever else I need to figure out that I need to get.
So we'll see. We'll see what happens in the next few weeks. Cool. Yeah. Give us a report. Yeah.
[00:42:46] Permanerd:
And it's getting warm too. So that's the other thing. It's getting hot. I know my, my kid is talking about with his friends getting a table at the farmer's market. He last week, he wants to make herbal teas. And so we were harvesting and and freeze drying some some different herbs from around the property for him to mix up into teas. What'd you get? What'd you pick? Nettle, anise high sop, bee balm, lemon balm, mint. And that might have been all that was ready. And then we'll maybe do some raspberry leaves.
Oh, and some and nutka rose petals, which are a native rose from around here. So, yeah, lots of lots of stuff. It's amazing, man. I really I really do like having just the access to these things, you know, these medicinal plants and just learning more about medicinal plants in general.
[00:43:47] Oshi:
Mhmm. Yeah. Speaking of, did you it'd probably be good to swing into the permaculture
[00:43:54] Permanerd:
section because I knew you had something that you wanted to touch on. Sure. We can do that, but I might need a beat to to come in on. Nice. Is that something that could be said? Can you say, like, I need a beat for a guitar? Or is that just drums or bass or how does that work? A riff. Need a riff. Just wanna sound like one of the cool kids.
[00:44:34] Oshi:
Hit it.
[00:44:39] Permanerd:
Yep. So perm permaculture is I mean, I called it a design science in the last episode, but it is it is enormous and can be used not just for planting plants, but for life in general from starting a company to just how you run your family. Right? How your family is organized. And so they're basic basically, there are 12 kind of agreed upon principles in permaculture. And I I mean, this isn't exhaustive. This is just sort of the the baseline for for permaculture. And so I was going to give that list and then just go into the first one a little bit. And the 12 principles are observe and interact, two, catch and store energy, three, obtain a yield, four, apply self regulation and accept feedback.
Five, use and value renewable resources and services. Six, produce no waste. Seven, design from patterns to details. Eight, integrate rather than segregate. Nine, use small and slow solutions. 10, use and value diversity. 11, use edges and value the marginal. And 12, creatively use and respond to chain. The the first one, observe and interact, is just checking the landscape that you are are you planning to create a food forest or whatever you're trying to do. Dig swales, plant a garden. And what you're doing is not just diving head first. Don't YOLO it like I do with most things.
Take your time and observe how the land naturally functions. Because if you don't do this and you just say, I'm gonna plant a tree here, then, you know, the the it might be a terrible spot for a tree. That tree might die within a couple months without, you know, you babying it, which is not what you're looking for. And so what you're doing is you're paying attention to patterns. And that's another that's another part of permaculture is pattern recognition. And, I mean, that that translates to every part of your life, whether it's watching the news or permaculture.
Like, just seeing the patterns and then and then adjusting accordingly. And so the different patterns that you can be looking for is sunlight versus shade, water movement, the the wind, what the soil conditions are for a certain area, how how healthy plants are in different areas, and wildlife activity, including, like, wildlife corridors, and then how these these things change seasonally throughout the year. And what it's gonna do for you is it's gonna allow you to create a better plan of action going forward when you can know where any micro climates are. You know, there's certain areas on a property that are going to be warmer than other properties or taking into consideration the south facing, side of your house.
Right? You can you can go down one or two, growing zones just because your house is going to absorb that heat during the day and then give off that heat at night. So you can have plants that need warmer weather tucked up against your house and things and things like that, which what it comes down to is instead of just diving in and and going for it is like Bitcoin. You're going with more of a low time preference and making sure that you understand the land that you're trying to work with, and then that will allow you to create much better permaculture designs.
And with this, I guess, I'll just say there's there's three three things as well in permaculture, and it's water access structure. And so when you're making these observations, the first thing when you're building a design or looking at a property to purchase, these are kind of the three things that you would be looking for is, okay, where is the water? Where is it going? You know, how can I is it possible to put a pond up at the top of the property and have it gravity fed down to do watering? Do I need swales?
Is there water? And then after that, it's the access. How do I access to the different areas that I want to utilize without, you know, disrupting the water flow or or, you know, where can I put my trails and my roads? And then structures after that. After you'd figure out those first two, then you move on to, okay, where can I now logically put structures on this property for this design? That could go on forever, but I'm gonna stop there unless you have questions or
[00:49:45] Oshi:
No I dig it. I was just thinking it's very much aligned with all the principles of not just Bitcoin but, I think of metabolism too. It's like eating seasonally, eating foods that are of your natural surroundings versus eating foods that are from other countries. Know it's to my mind I think about a QR code or a barcode in a grocery store. Say you bring enough food into your body that isn't of where you're from, you know, that store is not gonna be able to scan that code. Your body's not gonna be able to process that as well.
So my mind kinda goes to think about that kinda thing. So yeah, very interesting stuff. It's really cool. I agree.
[00:50:26] Permanerd:
This is why it it consumes so much of my my bandwidth, you know. And I'm I'm not as good as a lot of people as far as drawing correlations. And I think there was actually a note that somebody put on on Noster, and it was about about drawing the correlations between permaculture and Bitcoin. And, I mean, Rev Hoddle again is is amazing at it. And for me for me, I'm I'm I'm getting there. I haven't really I haven't really thought about Bitcoin in that in that in that way yet. But the more I'm Mhmm. More that I'm using it and getting involved in it, you know, you can start to see where there it's it's the the Venn diagram, you know, where it overlaps and maybe some differences.
But
[00:51:20] Oshi:
Mhmm. Yeah. There's a spirit that
[00:51:23] Permanerd:
both of them share for sure. It is. And I mean I think you'll probably be seeing more correlations as we if you wanna keep doing the different principles. Maybe one to show unless there's somebody else you know has another question that they would prefer to be answered or that might fit in. Yeah,
[00:51:42] Oshi:
definitely. I'm all for it. I think I think it's a good list to go through points on one every single episode and just kinda talk about it for like five to ten minutes. Yeah. What do you guys think? Let us know. Send a boost.
[00:52:07] Permanerd:
You had mentioned that you wanted to or that you had an idea for the town square. Maybe we should hit that up.
[00:52:14] Oshi:
Yeah. We were talking about yeah. We were talking about sunscreen earlier on how warm it's getting. So I thought it'd be pretty apt to shout out our friend Orange Horizon for his natural sunscreen. It's great stuff. It's a friend of mine here at the meetup that I go to. Yeah. Check it out. Orange Horizon, I'm not sure if he actually has a website per se but I'm pretty sure he's on takemystats.com. So yeah check it out. Orange Horizon amazing natural sunscreen for if you're sensitive to sun or super pale. But wanna get out and not burn, definitely recommend some natural sunscreen. I think it's got beeswax and
[00:53:02] Permanerd:
a couple other things. Let me grab it real quick. And he's on Noster as well. So you can check them out there.
[00:53:09] Oshi:
Yep. Definitely on Noster. Let me see here. Ingredients. What's under the lid? Beeswax, beef tallow, non nano zinc oxide, organic coconut oil, cocoa powder, and rosemary extract. It smells really good too. Here you wanna smell?
[00:53:27] Permanerd:
Oh, wow. Wow.
[00:53:30] Oshi:
Oh gosh. Yeah. That's Sounds crazy. Yeah. It's awesome. I think he was making candles as well for a brief moment, but his main gig is the sunscreen, so
[00:53:42] Permanerd:
check him out. Yeah. That makes reminds me of something that that I heard and makes sense as well. Like, there's some people, and I think that doctor Jack Kruse is one of them,
[00:53:53] Oshi:
that say that wearing sunglasses is one of the worst things that you can do. I agree because the book that I, you know, I mention it way too much, but I do think it's worth reading is The Art of Seeing by Aldis Huxley. Early in the book he talks about how sunglasses were never a thing before '19, what was it mid 20s, 30s. Yeah, sunglasses and sunscreen. You wanna build your solar callus naturally. That's really what you wanna do and that just, it takes time in case you know in the event that you don't go outside very much, you can build it over time and if you start to get a little toasty, you go in the shade for five minutes and then you go back out and you pulse this for you know for your everyday and you start to get to the point where you don't need the sunscreen anymore. You don't burn anymore. You just you adapt and that that's just a natural way. I don't know it's something that I've been doing for a long time. I don't personally wear sunscreen because I don't burn. I don't need it. But if you're someone that's really sensitive to it, I'd really recommend just going out little by little and
[00:54:57] Permanerd:
just doing it that way. The one of the things that he said about wearing sunglasses is that it's that circadian rhythm thing with blue light. So your body is getting sun in the day, but then your eyes are dark. So the, juxtaposition of those two things is unhealthy in some manner.
[00:55:20] Oshi:
Because what it is is when you're not wearing the sunglasses is that you're getting the full spectrum light. And that full spectrum light is telling your hormones what to do. So it's keeping that clock time much like Bitcoin. So it's very important to make sure that you're getting that clock time when you need. And when you obstruct that, you're not getting that information anymore. It really comes down to that kind of simple mechanism. So don't wear don't wear sunglasses
[00:55:47] Permanerd:
and check out Orange Horizon. Yep. And I was thinking about Let me get the doing this as well for the town square. Also on takemystats.com.dotcom. And I can't vouch for this, but it would be maybe in your your benefit to reach out to, rehash heating LLC. And they offer they offer, heating, I I guess. This is I might just be making this up. But, turning miners into heaters, and that flows with what we were talking about, heatpunkery from earlier. Heatpunkery. And it looks like they've got a summer sale where you take 50,000 sats off all in stock minors.
So maybe give them a a gander as well. Don't forget to use Are they on the opposite? Know. I just saw this when I was looking at takemysats.com. Oh. And it just it fit in with the heatpunkery conversation. Don't forget to use the promo code YADA or wave to them and tell them that that we said hi with any of these products.
[00:57:06] Oshi:
Cool. I like it. Was there anything else we should touch on? We have reached in the hour mark here. I don't think so. I mean, I think that
[00:57:16] Permanerd:
I think I went through. Oh, if you've got a minute, I did I did Yeah. Set up a a Haven Relay, which is a Noster Relay. And I had set it up before on a server that I'm running in my office just as sort of a way to back up. Well, for one, to set up a relay and for two to back up my own messages just to see how that worked. And then I've last night, because I'm the Nostril clients in general have been causing me a headache for a couple weeks now. And it's come to a head as far as Nostril DMs. And anybody that's used Nostril understands that the DMs are wholly unreliable and can It can be a pain in the butt. So, I did some research and then figured out that I can use this relay for DMs and inbox and private messages and outbox and things like that.
And so I did set it up. But, you know, I just added those relays to the different well, Amethyst and Yaquihone. I don't know if it's going to make a difference if if, like, there's one I don't know, man. If there's one relay that is is taking the DMs, I don't understand why I can't just use it and have DMs come to wherever I want them to come to. But for some reason, I don't know if it's that simple. You have it hooked up now, you said? Maybe I should, give you a DM. Yeah. Guess so. I mean, I I I've gotten some other ones. If if if anybody sent me a DM a DM on Nostrad and I haven't got back to you, it's because it's just flaky, and I don't I think I've lost a few. I think people aren't getting the ones I've sent. Or if you know more about these things than than I do and and possibly Oshi as well, let us know. I mean, is there there's gotta be this is the the one of the most complicated things about Noster is just the relay setup. And, like, we were talking about Primal.
There's something to be said about somebody just taking care of all that back end for you, which they do. And, again, I'm not I don't use it, but, you know, I it'd be nice to have a little more a little more definition on what relays do or how to set it up to where you can have a relay list, and then that just populates any client that you want to use and you should be able to have a similar experience, I would imagine. Yeah. Yeah. It it would be great if just things just worked, you know? And I'm not holding it against any of the developers or I understand that that No. We're kinda riding on the the cutting edge. You know? As my mom always said, if if you're not living on the edge, you're taking up too much space.
Brilliant. She didn't say that, but it's actually from, it's from the what is it called? Vegetable, oh, vegetable sound system. Guy's from Australia. The formidable vegetable sound system, I think. And it's a yeah. He talks about permaculture, sings about permaculture, and has gardening songs. And check that out too. And that was one of the lines from his his songs.
[01:00:45] Oshi:
That's cool. I ended up did watching,
[01:00:49] Permanerd:
that movie you recognized? Nice. The Castle? Yeah. It's good. It's really funny. Yeah. You should watch it again. That that one, I think it takes about 10 times before you start seeing everything that's going on. Yeah. What do you know about Ned? Tell him he's tell him he's dreaming. Yeah. Tell him he's dreaming. Yeah. Ivor will chime Ivor will chime in about this, I'm sure. Because this episode is certainly going straight to the pool room. Yeah.
[01:01:18] Oshi:
The pool room. Yes.
[01:01:20] Permanerd:
So good. So good. You gotta watch Brazil. Yeah. I've got it real when I get an opportunity. Cool, man. Well, where can the good folks of podcast land find you?
[01:01:33] Oshi:
Well, noster only for now. I may do the markets. We'll see. Tune in on that. And then, website is oshegood.us. I've got a few jars of some things. I've got the coffee crunchy. I've got I'm actually pretty low, but yeah. Just check the website. You can also find all the YADA episodes there. So it's a good resource to just kinda check-in. Other than that oh, then the preorder for the t shirts that I was doing a couple weeks ago. Those should be going out relatively soon. So thank you for your patience if you preorder a t shirt. Very cool. Thank you.
Other than that, that's all for me. What do got on your end?
[01:02:20] Permanerd:
Sats4snacks.com. That's the number four. I think I've got everything, I did a couple days ago. I spent a portion of the day making more comfrey salves, so that is back in stock. And I've got the freeze dried ice cream sandwiches, which are a hit. So I've got actually, I've got another batch in the freeze dryer right now. But I haven't got them on the website because I'm a troglodyte and have not gotten around to it yet. Hopefully I'll be able to do that. I don't know if I'll be able to do it today even. I've gotta, I gotta go to the Big Smoke, take the kid to art class. Oh.
The Big What's that? I think that's a Canadianism. Just the big city. So they go like, Calgary will be the big smoke or the yeah. I like that. Yeah. Taking him to the Big Smoke. And and then tomorrow is baseball, and then Sunday is actually, back up to Comox to do a doubleheader for baseball. And our house team is still abominable. Yeah. We got a couple weeks left and then start getting into summer ball, I think, as well. Eye on the ball, kid. Eye on the ball. So, yeah, that's about it for me, Nostril Only, as well. Hit us up. Send us an email. Send us a boost. Send us notes on Nostril. Send us carrier pigeon, smoke signals, you know, whatever will take it all.
No DMs, though. Those are through. Just to put a put a, full stop on it. I don't think that makes sense at all. But we completely value feedback and questions, and it seems like, you know, we can almost mold this show helping people and answering questions and not just not just speaking at people, but, you know, having integrating conversations. And I know that that for me, that's ideal. Like, this is this is perfect. If you can send questions and and we can have you know, they we've got the circular economy of Bitcoin, and we can create that circular communication of decentralized podcast and and user feedback and questions.
[01:04:43] Oshi:
Yep. For the common man, by the common man. Absolutely.
[01:04:48] Permanerd:
And until next time, just remember that you are the algorithm.
Hello, and welcome to the Yotta podcast where you are the algorithm. You caught me off guard there. I was about to go and then you had a little ditty at the end. The, I'm Permanerd. I'm joined here by my good friend and tickler of the guitar strings, Oshi. How you doing, man? Doing good. Had to have a little fun thing in there, you know? Oh, yeah. It's it's so good, man. I'm I'm so happy that you introduced something
[00:00:51] Oshi:
with talent into this program. Yeah. Me too. I'm not sure if there's any other podcasts that bring out the Guitar Live. There's only one Yada.
[00:01:00] Permanerd:
There's only one Yada. How you doing?
[00:01:03] Oshi:
Yada! Doing good. Doing good. It was warm today. Holy hell. It's definitely summer here. That is for sure. I'm sweating like a dog just stepping outside. It's fine with me though. It's better than freezing.
[00:01:15] Permanerd:
It is. It's been fairly cold here, but it's supposed to get up to 35 degrees Celsius on the weekend, which is like a thousand degrees Fahrenheit, I think. Oh. My conversion might be a little bit off or it might be a decimal point. Yeah, a thousand thousand sounds really, really warm.
[00:01:36] Oshi:
Grab your sunscreen. Yeah. Actually, that gives me a good idea for the town square.
[00:01:43] Permanerd:
Oh, nice. Cool. Alright. Foreshadowing. Yep. We do this podcast every Friday. We record and then put it out Saturday mornings, and we've been pretty consistent at it, which has been good. But we also follow the mindset of value for value, and that just means that we hit record, talk out of our mouth holes, and put it out into the ether. And if anybody finds any value in it, then you can return that in any way that you can. We accept any type of value. And that could be sharing the show. It could be sending us a note on Noster.
It can be sending an email, which we actually have more foreshadowing at sayhi@urthealgo.com, or the preferred method is boosting on a modern podcasting two point o enabled app, which allows you to send boosts and boostagrams in which a boost is just a a small amount of Bitcoin, and we're happy to help you set that up if needs be. But that'll lead us right into the boostograms that we've received from the last show. We talked to you last time, and the first one is 318 sats from local Bitcoiners. And this is from episode nine, Planting an Orchestra.
Great name. Yeah. It really is. You you've mentioned that during the show, and it's I've been thinking about it a lot, actually. And I'm hoping I'll I I don't know. I'm I'm I don't like saying that I'm gonna do things because I never get a chance to do them. But I'm gonna do something with that name. Do it. Take it. And the boostogram attached to it is listening to yada exclamation point. Thanks. Well, thank you, LocalBitcoiners. We've been there's been a lot of cross pollination, I think, with LocalBitcoiners.
It's been awesome. I've been boosting all their shows and basically game they they they've gamified their boosts and whatnot. And so I've been taking advantage of that to make myself feel better by getting towards the top of a leaderboard of some kind.
[00:04:10] Oshi:
What
[00:04:12] Permanerd:
position are you? Oh, that's personal. Oh, on the leaderboard? Well, I've boosted every one of their episodes, so I think I'm at the top of the the number of episodes boosted. But they're getting some pretty heavy. Nice. Yeah. They're getting some pretty heavy boosts. I think they got a 100,000 for one of their shows. So we're we're looking for whales. Any any whales wanna throw us some stats, we're we're open to it. That's what's bringing down the Bitcoin price. Come on. Oh, man. But it's rev it's it's Rev Hoddle and Reed BTC.
And it's a it's a it's a good show. If you're not listening to it, you should be local Bitcoiners. And then ironically enough, the next boost is 2,100 sats from said Reed BTC. And it says, permanent, how much does shipping to The US cost? What fraction of your business ends up shipping to The US? Should should collab with Oshi and have him help with US shipping? Love the pod boys. That's
[00:05:23] Oshi:
an idea because I do that with Bitcoin. Yeah. And I'm all for
[00:05:26] Permanerd:
oh, she paying for my shipping. Yeah. That's how it works. Right? But the to answer the first question, how much does shipping to The US cost? For a a single order for me is about 21 US dollars, which is a little bit cheaper than it cost to actually ship in Canada. And I I need I need to work on my pricing because I've been eating all of these costs along with the, before the tariffs. And I well, it's just that working on the website and getting it. I think it is you can tell me this, actually. In BTC pay server, you can you price in in dollars and then have the it show up as SATs on the website? Is that how you do the dynamic pricing? That's how I have mine Yeah. That's alright. Maybe I should just do that. Mhmm. Helps.
Yeah. I mean, I don't I just I don't like to have anything, you know, related to Fiat involved in it, but I think I might have to just I to
[00:06:36] Oshi:
can't remember if I have it configured. I mean I have in BTCPay the USD price, so it's just stable that way. And then I think it's somewhere in the code base where it automatically converts. I can't remember if it's that or if BTCPay is doing that for me. I'm pretty sure it's somewhere in the code, but you are able to do it because that's how I have my instructions. And I've seen other ones too. In, like, the Bitcoin and podcast, he was doing
[00:07:04] Permanerd:
I think it was Kid Warp's Vanilla Paste, and he was talking he was he was, in real time giving the price, and it was just fluctuating with any sort of Bitcoin movement, which is kinda funny. And then to answer the second part, Reid, most of my shipments go to The US. I mean, I've only had a few Canadian orders. So get on it people in Canada or anywhere in the world. I kinda wanna do some international shipping and and try that out be, apart from The US.
[00:07:39] Oshi:
I've shipped to, what was it, Norway recently? Shout out to my friend Anders. Yeah. Pretty cool shipping to other people around the world, but, you know, it's kind of expensive.
[00:07:50] Permanerd:
I would imagine so. Not kinda. Yeah. It is. You're also shipping glass jars
[00:07:57] Oshi:
as well which Yeah. I am. Sometimes it's chocolates or but yeah it is the glass jars. I actually got some new boxes so hopefully the packaging is a little bit more solid. I'm always trying to improve the packaging front because you know, would use newspaper because it's free and it works perfect.
[00:08:17] Permanerd:
But yeah. I remember getting an order I got from you and checking out the produce prices from the newspaper that was in there.
[00:08:28] Oshi:
Yeah. Kroger's got the good prices, man. Nice.
[00:08:33] Permanerd:
The the next oh, look at that. The next boost is 2,100 sats again from Reed BTC. And it says, great to hear about y'all's meetups. It came up again on the latest episode of Local Bitcoiners episode 15. Oshi, are you anywhere near Columbia, South Carolina meetup?
[00:08:54] Oshi:
Mhmm. Yeah. I am actually. Maybe,
[00:08:56] Permanerd:
you know, not not too far, but I would definitely be down to check out those folks. I don't really know anybody personally there. Awesome. Well, if you're part of the the Columbia, South Carolina meetup, let's throw us a note and Yeah. Send a a proper invite because, oh, she doesn't go anywhere without a gold embroidered invite.
[00:09:17] Oshi:
Embroidered?
[00:09:18] Permanerd:
Seal of Embroidered? That doesn't sound right. Embossed?
[00:09:21] Oshi:
Embroidered? A a bomb?
[00:09:25] Permanerd:
Deep cut. Deep cut. Taking her back. And the next boost is 333 sats from bullish clips. These are all these are all from fountain. And it just says adding to the takemysatsjar.com. And then we got a Certified c chord. I love it. Love it. Then we got 420 sats from undisciplined. And it says here's a nice little history of the heat punk movement by the great scores be. And then it gives a a link to a Stacker News article number to put into the show notes. So basically, it's trying to find useful applications for what would otherwise be waste heat, particular from bit Bitcoin mining devices.
Also, thanks for checking out the Stacker Sports pod. Sorry. It's one of the one with a catastrophic audio failure though. Yeah.
[00:10:26] Oshi:
I know. Yeah. We
[00:10:28] Permanerd:
know that all too well around here. Only once though. But thank you, undisciplined, for the definition. I know we were we were struggling with that from the last episode. And I think someone else mentions it down here, and I will give my take on it in just a and then there's 1,110 sats from RevHoddle, also a local Bitcoiner. And it says, I miss an episode, and it's the one you guys give a mass massive shout out to local Bitcoiners. Pretty sure that's every episode, isn't it? Yeah. Pretty sure it's every episode. And I'm alright with that.
And it says this is the hashtag value chain. High velocity exchange builds capital, especially if that exchange causes a chain reaction of capital to propagate. Not just financial capital, BTC, but also intellectual, experiential, social, cultural, spiritual, etcetera. This is how the world we want to live in gets built by participation and cooperation, big or small. The key right now is velocity in my opinion. Rev Hoddle's smart, dude.
[00:11:40] Oshi:
Yeah. He's smart. He said s m r t. But I like it. S capital m r t.
[00:11:50] Permanerd:
And that was actually something that I was going to bring up today in our permaculture section is the the different forms of of capital. But I decided to go a different a different way, but this will definitely be coming up at some point is the is the different forms of capital, which are is kind of another, concept that you learn in in permaculture because capital definitely is not just, you know, financial.
[00:12:22] Oshi:
Mhmm. It's all energy at the end of the day.
[00:12:24] Permanerd:
It is. And and, yeah, just, you know, building up. Yeah. Though, we'll we'll talk about it another time. Otherwise, we'll be here all day doing this. And then we've got our friend Jim Seifert with his ten thirty three sats. Thank you, Jim. And it says, what a great episode. You know what? I agree with you. I've been studying permaculture since Jack Spearco introduced it to me fifteen years ago. Observation is a big part of permaculture. Look at what grows near you. If there's an equivalent you like, grow that. Diversity is key. Also, Spearco introduced me to doctor Ken Berry and the keto carnivore proper human diet.
I am one of I am one of the 80 plus pound success stories. Yes. That's right. I lost 80 pounds eating beef, butter, bacon, and eggs. Blood work improved. Wow. It is the way.
[00:13:22] Oshi:
Fantastic.
[00:13:23] Permanerd:
That's sick. Yeah. It's so so good. Congrats. And it's so simple. I mean, right there, the only thing you need to know is eating beef, butter, bacon, and eggs. You got
[00:13:34] Oshi:
mean, honestly. It's
[00:13:35] Permanerd:
just dedication and how bad do you want it? Yeah. And and it's it's definitely tough at first. I mean, seriously, sugar is Yeah. Is one of the most addictive substances on earth. And Mhmm. So you will feel it when you stop eating it. And there is something to be said for the keto flu, which a lot of people will get in the first couple weeks when you stop eating sugar. And it's basically a withdrawal from sugar. And it's terrible. But once you get past it, you're like, oh, jeez, okay. I don't even have the, you know, I don't have the urge to eat that donut anymore.
So good job, Jim. Yeah. That's, that's awesome, man. Eighty pounds is, is nothing to say. It's really not. I don't even know, I can lift 80 pounds.
[00:14:23] Oshi:
Honestly, my, my food processor is actually 80 pounds. So
[00:14:28] Permanerd:
that's a lot of weight, man. Jim, you lost the weight of a food processor. Nice one. You're processing, man. The next boost is three eighteen from Rev Hoddle again. Said the Yada podcast is developing a nice intersection of many topics I love all in one place. Noster, Bitcoin, permaculture, and value for value. Definitely moved up into the immediately listened tier of the hashtag 40 h p w, which is forty hours per week. It's a a podcast listening hashtag. It feels like building friendships through a podcast, which is cool. By the way, a heat punk is someone who uses the heat from Bitcoin mining for productive means. Many simply heat their homes in cold weather, but I am drying laundry, heating water, dehydrating food, medicine, growing plants, etcetera. A very permaculture way to mine Bitcoin.
Hashtag v four v. Hashtag value chain. Hashtag permaculture. Sorry, Jim, but Rev Hoddle had more hashtags than you did in that one. Yeah. He's got your beat, man. Follow Rev Hoddle on Noster, and you won't be disappointed. Like, just looking at what he's building and the projects that he does is pretty fantastic. Smart fellow, that guy. Really is. And then here's the last one. It's from it's 776 stat stats stats from Bemis. Bemis. And it says heat punk, someone who is using their miner to heat their home, hot tub, sonic, etcetera. Basically earning Sats through mining and directing directing, applying the heat for use in some manner.
[00:16:07] Oshi:
Man, we got a lot of replies on that question. It is. That's good. I think we both I think we both understand what it is Well,
[00:16:14] Permanerd:
I've understood what it is. I've I've been a heat punk. I've done heat punkery, but I didn't know what it was called. Last year, I used an s nine miner to heat my greenhouse in the spring and ended up I I had hooked it up to the ocean mining pool and ended up with, I don't know, I think like $202,100 bucks worth of Bitcoin, something like that. $15,200 over the spring from heating the greenhouse, which I think more than more than paid for the well, I don't know about that. But it was it was great. It was really fun to do, and I almost burned it down because I don't have proper power out to our garden. So I was running a long ass extension cord, and it almost melted the I've done that a couple times. Be careful with electricity, folks. It can be dangerous.
Yeah. Don't put a 150 feet of of extension cord plugging into a hot tub or a a Bitcoin miner. Yeah. Don't do that. So, yeah, I am, I have practiced heatpunkery, and thank you for everybody that has let us know what it is because it just proves that you can do something and not know what it is. The more you know. And that is all of the boost. Thank you, everyone. We use these to pay for any of the expenses that that come out from this podcast, which there are a few and there might be more eventually if we need to host a website, all that fun stuff. So thank you.
And we also have the email, which I mentioned before, which we'd never gotten an email through except for this time. Now we are officially email recipients. We're growing up. Did you want to read the email? That was that was your cue. Oh.
[00:18:21] Oshi:
Yeah. Yeah. I'll read this one. This is this is from my friend Ivor or your friend Ivor. I guess my Let's friend now see. The email says, and it's quite a long one, but I'm gonna read it just because why not. It says, hey, guys. Just listened to your latest episode, Too Old To Toggle, and was intrigued by the conversation on why small businesses are reluctant to accept Bitcoin. It occurred to me that accounting equation might be a factor. According to the tax rules in my country, and I'm pretty sure they would be very similar to those that apply in The USA, Canada.
The minute you accept a Bitcoin sale transaction, you are entering into a barter transaction. Accounting for bartered goods is quite frankly a nightmare. I believe it. Needless to say, pushing a Bitcoin to enable pushing a button to enable Bitcoin POS transactions is really only the beginning. The real issue to me would be how is the business going to account for these transactions? And does my accountant understand how to do this properly so I don't go to jail? And does my accounting software do this off the shelf or will I have to pay for an extra license?
It's far easier for businesses, for business managers to run their business off the P and L using the FIA system they're used to and not go to all and not go all the bother of integrating the Bitcoin barter system into their ledger. It's a good opportunity for a savvy accountant programmer to provide a Bitcoin integrated accounting service so that small businesses can integrate accounting for Bitcoin into their accounting systems without having to worry about the additional cost or the FBI knocking on their door at tax time. The real question is whether the proprietary accounting software systems like Xero or MYOB, QuickBooks, etcetera are even capable of integrating these transactions into their code base.
Loving the podcast guys, especially OC's Guitar Work. Opening song suggestion for next time is Two of Us by the Beatles. I did a pygmy.
[00:20:34] Permanerd:
I don't know. I was trying to figure that out too. That's okay. So last time it was heat punkery that we didn't understand. And now this one ends with I dig a pygmy in full caps explanation point. So Ivor is in New Zealand, and they're a bit weird. So if anybody has a definition for I dig a pygmy. I see why you wanted to read it. It says that he especially likes your guitar work.
[00:21:04] Oshi:
Oh, yeah. So But
[00:21:10] Permanerd:
Thanks, Ivor. Appreciate that. Yeah. And thanks for the email. First one. First one. And it was a good one too. I I I think it was Yeah. Pretty apropos as far as for me anyway because I just went in and talked to my accountant Because I decided last year that I was going to start accepting Bitcoin for products, and I kinda just went YOLO and didn't look at anything in Canada as far as tax codes or how it would be how it would affect, well, as he said, going to jail. And what I learned here is that once you accept Bitcoin for payment, the fiat equivalent of the Bitcoin, the conversion rate is what you use for your taxes.
And then that Bitcoin, if you don't sell it straight away, it becomes an investment for the company. And now it will be once it if it's ever sold, then that will be subject to capital gains taxes. That sounds different than what he's talking about about the a barter transaction.
[00:22:20] Oshi:
And so I think that the the Yeah. I'm I'm not even familiar with that term personally.
[00:22:25] Permanerd:
Yeah. I I don't know if it's like an in kind or, you know, like, I don't I don't know. But I think the the main point is that every jurisdiction probably has different set of of guidelines and rules. So make sure that you figure that out if you're going to be, like, legitimate a legitimate business. And I have, you know, I have no no qualms about anybody in a gray market and not reporting all of this stuff, but I've just I've I've chosen to go into more of a legitimate model because who knows why.
[00:23:06] Oshi:
Canada. Canada is why. Canada. That the is that the episode title? Canada is why.
[00:23:19] Permanerd:
Cool. Thanks again Ivor. And that is Yeah. I think that's all the feedback. I don't know if there's any Nost or note. I don't think so. I can't recall any. In the vein of transparency, we like to I don't even know if that's right. I've said that, like, quite a bit. I don't know. We like to go over the stats just to because it's it's fun and it might give an idea as to the behind the scenes for anybody that's interested that's listening. Yeah. And and how popular we are. Yeah. Right. Our popularity is growing. No. No. We're we're pretty stagnant.
[00:23:56] Oshi:
Yeah. Yeah. Come and subscribe. I'm trying. Smash that like button.
[00:24:00] Permanerd:
Yeah. Smash it. Don't forget to subscribe.
[00:24:05] Oshi:
Yeah. Share with friends. We'll honestly share Everybody
[00:24:09] Permanerd:
love so our all time downloads and this is through from podhome.fm where we host this show. Our all time downloads are at 5,716. Woah. And that the the last episode planting an orchestra, we are at 588 downloads. Wow. Sick. That's really cool. That was that was much better than the two before this was not great. But the episode Too Old to Toggle was our last episode, and that's up to 694. And then the next one was four sixty six, which was a bit of a a trench. And the all time high was Fearless Circular Economy, which is at 798 downloads. So we need two people to listen to that. Get it up to 800 so that we got a nice round number.
Apple Podcast and Domus are the still the the dominating players that's into and, wow, Apple Podcasts or Apple iPhone is still at 76. Cray cray. And we've got a new bottom of the list one download in Saudi Arabia. Oh, cool. So we're still looking for messages. Say hi from anywhere that is a little bit more obscure for most people. Yeah. Like Vanuatu or Lithuania. I mean, Ethiopia. Or Chad. Do we have Chad on here? Chad. Yes. If you're in Chad, let us know. Chad, hit us up, Chad. And then that's all the stats. Then the next thing thing for this this area of the show is the Lykem Joe. Oh, let's go. And since I didn't get it done for the last show, we've got two here. And so we've got episode eight.
And Oshi had three three thousand nine hundred and twenty two words with 22 actually, let me know. Do that. It's 13 fillers. That's a point 59%. That's three ums and 10 likes. And then Permanerd with I'll let it slide. You're still under a percentage. That's under a percent. Permanerd, 4,801 words with 12 fillers. And you're you know what? Yours is actually lower than that. Need to get rid because I still have the uhs, and so it's counting those as well. Inflation. Inflation exactly. Which works out for me because apparently I didn't have any uhs. So gotcha.
And I've got 12 legitimate fillers for a point 25%, and that's three ums and nine likes.
[00:27:00] Oshi:
Nice. And
[00:27:02] Permanerd:
then for episode nine, you've got 3,671 words, 20 fillers, point 54%, and that's one and 18 likes.
[00:27:13] Oshi:
18.
[00:27:15] Permanerd:
So you're right at that half a percentage, half a percent. And then and then I had 7,000 words exactly, and that was a large diatribe about permaculture. Yeah. With six fillers for a point 09%. And that's no ums and six likes. So Okay. That that's setting the bar, my friend. Yeah.
[00:27:39] Oshi:
I lick it. Put the fire under me.
[00:27:42] Permanerd:
And the point of this Lykem jar is that eventually we're going to have we're keeping track of all of them and eventually we're going to have some wallet or some other method of we're putting in 20 sats per,
[00:27:55] Oshi:
like Let's make it 21. Let's make it 21. Sounds better. Yeah. I don't know why I ever said 20. It should be 21.
[00:28:03] Permanerd:
Into this wallet and then we'll we'll figure out what to where to donate
[00:28:08] Oshi:
them to. We should do a polling for what dev to donate I
[00:28:13] Permanerd:
think we should get the jar sorted first.
[00:28:17] Oshi:
Yeah, we should probably do that. I should use, or I should maybe try out the new Kimi 2.7 for building it. Save my tokens because Claude is pretty
[00:28:28] Permanerd:
hungry. I've been hearing things about just how many tokens people are burning through like corporations. It's like a half $1,000,000 a month. Yeah. Just ridiculousness.
[00:28:39] Oshi:
It's yeah, it's crazy. They just released a new Fable five, I think, which is, I don't know, amazing apparently, but I don't know.
[00:28:49] Permanerd:
Power hungry on the tokens to be sure. Cool. Well, thank you again just to everybody for your support. It is amazing to hear from everyone. And, yeah, let's, move past this part. You got a little ditty to play us out. Next.
[00:29:19] Oshi:
What do you got? You wanna talk about your legendary Bitcoin meetup? Your first one, which was like a grand slam apparently.
[00:29:26] Permanerd:
Yeah. I went to my first Bitcoin meetup that I've been trying to go to for a couple months, but it just hasn't worked out. And it's the Comox Valley local Bitcoin meetup. And it's about it's about an hour and ten minutes drive. And I decided that from listening to other people, including yourself, I mean, you and the the local Bitcoiners are kinda gave me the push to actually go out and do it. And Mhmm. Also to make sure that I took some some goods that could be purchased for Bitcoin to the the meetup. And so I got there, and it was at a beach, which was nice. And there's a little pavilion with a couple of cooking tables. There were a couple there's three guys sitting in there, and so I kinda just loitered kind of on the fringes listening to their conversation. And then once I determined that, it sounded like it sounded like people talking about something that that this group may be discussing.
I went over and introduced myself. And and then by the end of it, was probably 12 or 14 people that came through. Holy cow. That's a big That was good. And then it turned out that that the plan for that meeting was to get people that didn't have Lightning wallets, get them installed with some wallets. And then one guy had brought, some drinks to sell, some sodas and and things like And and then their plan was the plan was to just sort of shuffle SATs around to get people familiar with QR codes and just doing transactions.
And so after the presentation and and then when they're discussing the the wallets, then I was like, took out my backpack. I was like, you know what? I got some stuff here. Sure. Yeah. I just opened a few packages for samples, and then it was it was amazing, man. Like, I I transferred one guy a couple bucks worth of sats for his first Bitcoin ever and then, you know, sold Awesome. Sold some, some products. And for a couple people, maybe three, it was their first Bitcoin purchase ever. It was It so was so good. Like, the selling of the product, okay, whatever. But just being involved in it and and contributing and Right.
And it also made me realize that, you know, if you are boosting a podcast, if you are buying products with Bitcoin, if you're selling products with Bitcoin, you can contribute to a meetup, and you and you should. Like, go out you know, I was a little bit Mhmm. Not apprehensive, but, you know, you just kinda wonder what it's gonna be like and whether I can contribute to this meetup, you know. And and even if you can't, that's great too. You're there to learn, and everybody is more than willing to help out. But if you do if you do possess that those that knowledge or those skills, then, I mean, it was great because I just, like, stepped in and could help people and actually contribute to the learning of of people that were there because they were interested.
[00:32:41] Oshi:
Mhmm. Yeah. That's awesome. My favorite thing is being the first to introduce something to somebody like that. Know, it's, you're giving them step one of a whole new perspective on, you know, their understanding of Bitcoin, even perhaps their life. Who knows? You could really change the trajectory of someone's life if they understand this thing by experiencing
[00:33:06] Permanerd:
this simple transaction. You never know. And that was what one of the ladies said. And I ended up I sold the first Bitcoin I've ever sold and it was $20 for this lady that was there and wanted to wanted to put Bitcoin in her wallet. I mean, yeah. Sure. Of course. You know? I don't I I don't sell Bitcoin, but here, I'll take your $20, and I'll put it into your wallet and to just Yep. And just the amazement and the like, it's kind of a you know, you can't see look this look in their eye. Like, I don't know what what's gonna happen, what this is. And then I just saw the light just flicker. And then, like, all of sudden, the recognition of, oh, wow. That was easy.
And then and then Mhmm. You know, this the instantaneous payment, like, oh, man. Okay. I'm starting to understand
[00:33:56] Oshi:
the appeal of this. Yeah. Yeah. Guys, it's like Venmo, you know, it's just better.
[00:34:03] Permanerd:
And also if you do go, I mean, I've been telling everybody lately, like somebody has something and like, this same lady, she was talking about how she and I I don't remember her name and I apologize. But she was had gotten some some organ meat for free, I think, from a butcher. And she freeze dried it and made dog dog treats Woah. From it. And Cool. And it was kinda that same look once you realize the the way that Lightning worked or just how how easy and and flawless it was. And I said, well, you you should sell it for Bitcoin.
And I tell that to, you know, just telling that to everybody that has anything and they go, oh, I I made this. Right? Sell it for Bitcoin. Oh, wait a minute. And just spreading that out there too.
[00:34:52] Oshi:
Mhmm. Yeah. It's it's that it's that simple. I'm curious what wallets were these guys using or teaching? Well, there was some talk about Cake Wallet
[00:35:02] Permanerd:
and then I think it was mostly wallet of Satoshi just for the ease of use and being able to convert on chain to Lightning without needing to run relays or nodes or
[00:35:15] Oshi:
channels, opening channels, all that fun stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Another good one I would probably recommend people to look into is Phoenix. It's like another one where you don't have to open channels and manage stuff like that. Because that does add a bit of complexity for people. I can understand how some may not want to get to that or they're not ready for that yet, but there are some wallets that manage channel liquidity automatically for you like that. Yeah. And that is the biggest the biggest hit. It really is. It was for me for starting out.
[00:35:46] Permanerd:
That's really cool though. Yeah. And I mean, it was also interesting because, you know, there's there's names of of people that you hear or, you know, if you're if you're listening to Bitcoin content or tangentially Bitcoin content, then you hear names. And one of those and I I need to yeah. I need a better brain. But, was Bitcoin Mechanic, and he was actually there. So that's his local
[00:36:16] Oshi:
meetup. And so I Really? That's wait. That's his go to local he lives in that area? Oh, that's wild, man. I didn't realize that. Yeah. And then and then another,
[00:36:27] Permanerd:
Joyce Dawn, which is his partner's wife, is one of the the, organizers of the meetup. And so I had quite a a long conversation with her. And, yeah, it was it was awesome. I mean, you never know who you're gonna meet. And I I feel like now if as deep as I want to get into the Bitcoin knowledge, you know, I feel like there's that resource available.
[00:36:57] Oshi:
Oh, for sure.
[00:36:58] Permanerd:
And then and then another you can follow him on on Noster's is Forest Hoddle. And he was there. And I don't I don't remember everybody else's names, and I don't know I know that that those three have, been been mentioned publicly through for the meetups. So I don't you know, I'm not doxing anybody I don't think. Mhmm.
[00:37:25] Oshi:
It sounds like a bumpin' little meetup though. It's definitely a wealth of resources. It really is. And
[00:37:31] Permanerd:
yeah. And and John as well will go with that. John is one of the organizers, he was really great. It it just felt it was very welcoming. You know, I had my my bag full of freeze dried goods underneath the table, and I didn't wanna just bust it out. And then it just it was serendipitous, though, that that that is what that meeting was about. And I mean, it just felt like, okay, there's a reason I wasn't able to make it for the last two months when I tried to, and this popped up there. Mhmm.
[00:38:02] Oshi:
Yeah, man. I love how things happen like that. They just kinda just magically happen. Just happens to work out every time. Yeah. I never, as a as a younger lad,
[00:38:14] Permanerd:
I never appreciated it or would recognize when something like that happened. You know, sometimes it's easier to to focus on the negative things or, oh, man, I can't believe that happened. And then kinda just gloss over
[00:38:29] Oshi:
things that that actually line up. Yeah. Lately for me, I've I've been focused more on that in the past few years, just paying attention to more kind of synchronicities kind of things and the way that things line up. They're so peculiar every time it happens. The more they happen the more amazed I am that this thing works the way that it does. It's crazy. It just points you in the right direction sometimes and sometimes those moments come and go. Sometimes they don't come around for a while and then sometimes they do. It happened to me the other day and yeah I'm always thankful for when it does and when it does I'm by the end of the day, I'm giving gratitude to just kind of things like that. I go through a list of things and it's usually when those things happen where the intensity
[00:39:17] Permanerd:
of the gratitude is just immense. I just really appreciate it. You get out of your comfort zone and you don't know what will happen. Yep.
[00:39:26] Oshi:
That's the way. That's why I, that's why I kind of promote the cold shower thing in the mornings. It's not so much the health stuff. It's more of just to get yourself used to doing something uncomfortable and just doing it. And it's free. I think people should just do it. Yeah,
[00:39:42] Permanerd:
it is. It's free. It's actually cheaper than taking a hot shower. You go. Save money, shower cold.
[00:39:50] Oshi:
Yeah. It just makes challenging things a bit more, I don't know, not easier, but something that you're welcoming. Life, man, you know? It's not easy. No. Not always.
[00:40:03] Permanerd:
You gotta gotta condition yourself a bit. You had mentioned something when we were talking before about a farmer's market that you went to? Oh yeah. Yeah.
[00:40:13] Oshi:
Thursdays. Every Thursday there's a local farmer's market here in town I go to. I usually pick up some milk or carrots from some of the farmers. But I was kind of walking around asking a few other merchants. There's a guy who sells vanilla paste and vanilla bean stuff. He used to actually own an ice cream parlor back in the day from what he was saying. Really nice guy. And I was kind of thinking in his brain about how many units he sells. Same with the there's a lady that sells honey there as well. Was talking to her. And I was just curious about how many units these people sell at the market because I was kind of thinking of whether or not I should do this. Should I attend the market? Because believe it or not, I've actually never done a farmer's market for what I make and people have been telling me, you should do the farmer's market. And I'm just thinking to myself, yeah, but the hurdles of paying, you know, the general liability insurance and yada yada of expenses and I don't know, it just kinda kept me away for a while but now I'm feeling that I should probably do this so I was asking them numbers and so it was helpful insights for sure that I was getting from asking them about the units and stuff like that. So I don't know. I think I may do the farmers market pretty soon. We'll see.
But I think it would be good. I would definitely crush it. I know I would. Best thing. Like I'm pretty confident I would do a really great job at it. Especially the free samples. You know, like people love free samples. Same thing with your stuff. Have you ever done Farmers' No. Well, I have not for
[00:41:48] Permanerd:
actually, I don't know about Farmers' I've done a lot of a lot of craft fairs and and things like that for nonprofit, money making.
[00:41:58] Oshi:
Mhmm. So I, I know what it's like to sit behind a, a table and talk to hundreds of people that walk past. Yeah. Yeah. I I've done that plenty of times, you know, standing behind the table, selling stuff, saying the same kind of line for six hours. So I have experience of that, years of that to be honest. So it's not so much that that's keeping me away. I enjoy talking to people. I love pushing my product that I really support. I believe in the thing. I really think the thing that was keeping me away is just the whole rigmarole of permits and whatever else I need to figure out that I need to get.
So we'll see. We'll see what happens in the next few weeks. Cool. Yeah. Give us a report. Yeah.
[00:42:46] Permanerd:
And it's getting warm too. So that's the other thing. It's getting hot. I know my, my kid is talking about with his friends getting a table at the farmer's market. He last week, he wants to make herbal teas. And so we were harvesting and and freeze drying some some different herbs from around the property for him to mix up into teas. What'd you get? What'd you pick? Nettle, anise high sop, bee balm, lemon balm, mint. And that might have been all that was ready. And then we'll maybe do some raspberry leaves.
Oh, and some and nutka rose petals, which are a native rose from around here. So, yeah, lots of lots of stuff. It's amazing, man. I really I really do like having just the access to these things, you know, these medicinal plants and just learning more about medicinal plants in general.
[00:43:47] Oshi:
Mhmm. Yeah. Speaking of, did you it'd probably be good to swing into the permaculture
[00:43:54] Permanerd:
section because I knew you had something that you wanted to touch on. Sure. We can do that, but I might need a beat to to come in on. Nice. Is that something that could be said? Can you say, like, I need a beat for a guitar? Or is that just drums or bass or how does that work? A riff. Need a riff. Just wanna sound like one of the cool kids.
[00:44:34] Oshi:
Hit it.
[00:44:39] Permanerd:
Yep. So perm permaculture is I mean, I called it a design science in the last episode, but it is it is enormous and can be used not just for planting plants, but for life in general from starting a company to just how you run your family. Right? How your family is organized. And so they're basic basically, there are 12 kind of agreed upon principles in permaculture. And I I mean, this isn't exhaustive. This is just sort of the the baseline for for permaculture. And so I was going to give that list and then just go into the first one a little bit. And the 12 principles are observe and interact, two, catch and store energy, three, obtain a yield, four, apply self regulation and accept feedback.
Five, use and value renewable resources and services. Six, produce no waste. Seven, design from patterns to details. Eight, integrate rather than segregate. Nine, use small and slow solutions. 10, use and value diversity. 11, use edges and value the marginal. And 12, creatively use and respond to chain. The the first one, observe and interact, is just checking the landscape that you are are you planning to create a food forest or whatever you're trying to do. Dig swales, plant a garden. And what you're doing is not just diving head first. Don't YOLO it like I do with most things.
Take your time and observe how the land naturally functions. Because if you don't do this and you just say, I'm gonna plant a tree here, then, you know, the the it might be a terrible spot for a tree. That tree might die within a couple months without, you know, you babying it, which is not what you're looking for. And so what you're doing is you're paying attention to patterns. And that's another that's another part of permaculture is pattern recognition. And, I mean, that that translates to every part of your life, whether it's watching the news or permaculture.
Like, just seeing the patterns and then and then adjusting accordingly. And so the different patterns that you can be looking for is sunlight versus shade, water movement, the the wind, what the soil conditions are for a certain area, how how healthy plants are in different areas, and wildlife activity, including, like, wildlife corridors, and then how these these things change seasonally throughout the year. And what it's gonna do for you is it's gonna allow you to create a better plan of action going forward when you can know where any micro climates are. You know, there's certain areas on a property that are going to be warmer than other properties or taking into consideration the south facing, side of your house.
Right? You can you can go down one or two, growing zones just because your house is going to absorb that heat during the day and then give off that heat at night. So you can have plants that need warmer weather tucked up against your house and things and things like that, which what it comes down to is instead of just diving in and and going for it is like Bitcoin. You're going with more of a low time preference and making sure that you understand the land that you're trying to work with, and then that will allow you to create much better permaculture designs.
And with this, I guess, I'll just say there's there's three three things as well in permaculture, and it's water access structure. And so when you're making these observations, the first thing when you're building a design or looking at a property to purchase, these are kind of the three things that you would be looking for is, okay, where is the water? Where is it going? You know, how can I is it possible to put a pond up at the top of the property and have it gravity fed down to do watering? Do I need swales?
Is there water? And then after that, it's the access. How do I access to the different areas that I want to utilize without, you know, disrupting the water flow or or, you know, where can I put my trails and my roads? And then structures after that. After you'd figure out those first two, then you move on to, okay, where can I now logically put structures on this property for this design? That could go on forever, but I'm gonna stop there unless you have questions or
[00:49:45] Oshi:
No I dig it. I was just thinking it's very much aligned with all the principles of not just Bitcoin but, I think of metabolism too. It's like eating seasonally, eating foods that are of your natural surroundings versus eating foods that are from other countries. Know it's to my mind I think about a QR code or a barcode in a grocery store. Say you bring enough food into your body that isn't of where you're from, you know, that store is not gonna be able to scan that code. Your body's not gonna be able to process that as well.
So my mind kinda goes to think about that kinda thing. So yeah, very interesting stuff. It's really cool. I agree.
[00:50:26] Permanerd:
This is why it it consumes so much of my my bandwidth, you know. And I'm I'm not as good as a lot of people as far as drawing correlations. And I think there was actually a note that somebody put on on Noster, and it was about about drawing the correlations between permaculture and Bitcoin. And, I mean, Rev Hoddle again is is amazing at it. And for me for me, I'm I'm I'm getting there. I haven't really I haven't really thought about Bitcoin in that in that in that way yet. But the more I'm Mhmm. More that I'm using it and getting involved in it, you know, you can start to see where there it's it's the the Venn diagram, you know, where it overlaps and maybe some differences.
But
[00:51:20] Oshi:
Mhmm. Yeah. There's a spirit that
[00:51:23] Permanerd:
both of them share for sure. It is. And I mean I think you'll probably be seeing more correlations as we if you wanna keep doing the different principles. Maybe one to show unless there's somebody else you know has another question that they would prefer to be answered or that might fit in. Yeah,
[00:51:42] Oshi:
definitely. I'm all for it. I think I think it's a good list to go through points on one every single episode and just kinda talk about it for like five to ten minutes. Yeah. What do you guys think? Let us know. Send a boost.
[00:52:07] Permanerd:
You had mentioned that you wanted to or that you had an idea for the town square. Maybe we should hit that up.
[00:52:14] Oshi:
Yeah. We were talking about yeah. We were talking about sunscreen earlier on how warm it's getting. So I thought it'd be pretty apt to shout out our friend Orange Horizon for his natural sunscreen. It's great stuff. It's a friend of mine here at the meetup that I go to. Yeah. Check it out. Orange Horizon, I'm not sure if he actually has a website per se but I'm pretty sure he's on takemystats.com. So yeah check it out. Orange Horizon amazing natural sunscreen for if you're sensitive to sun or super pale. But wanna get out and not burn, definitely recommend some natural sunscreen. I think it's got beeswax and
[00:53:02] Permanerd:
a couple other things. Let me grab it real quick. And he's on Noster as well. So you can check them out there.
[00:53:09] Oshi:
Yep. Definitely on Noster. Let me see here. Ingredients. What's under the lid? Beeswax, beef tallow, non nano zinc oxide, organic coconut oil, cocoa powder, and rosemary extract. It smells really good too. Here you wanna smell?
[00:53:27] Permanerd:
Oh, wow. Wow.
[00:53:30] Oshi:
Oh gosh. Yeah. That's Sounds crazy. Yeah. It's awesome. I think he was making candles as well for a brief moment, but his main gig is the sunscreen, so
[00:53:42] Permanerd:
check him out. Yeah. That makes reminds me of something that that I heard and makes sense as well. Like, there's some people, and I think that doctor Jack Kruse is one of them,
[00:53:53] Oshi:
that say that wearing sunglasses is one of the worst things that you can do. I agree because the book that I, you know, I mention it way too much, but I do think it's worth reading is The Art of Seeing by Aldis Huxley. Early in the book he talks about how sunglasses were never a thing before '19, what was it mid 20s, 30s. Yeah, sunglasses and sunscreen. You wanna build your solar callus naturally. That's really what you wanna do and that just, it takes time in case you know in the event that you don't go outside very much, you can build it over time and if you start to get a little toasty, you go in the shade for five minutes and then you go back out and you pulse this for you know for your everyday and you start to get to the point where you don't need the sunscreen anymore. You don't burn anymore. You just you adapt and that that's just a natural way. I don't know it's something that I've been doing for a long time. I don't personally wear sunscreen because I don't burn. I don't need it. But if you're someone that's really sensitive to it, I'd really recommend just going out little by little and
[00:54:57] Permanerd:
just doing it that way. The one of the things that he said about wearing sunglasses is that it's that circadian rhythm thing with blue light. So your body is getting sun in the day, but then your eyes are dark. So the, juxtaposition of those two things is unhealthy in some manner.
[00:55:20] Oshi:
Because what it is is when you're not wearing the sunglasses is that you're getting the full spectrum light. And that full spectrum light is telling your hormones what to do. So it's keeping that clock time much like Bitcoin. So it's very important to make sure that you're getting that clock time when you need. And when you obstruct that, you're not getting that information anymore. It really comes down to that kind of simple mechanism. So don't wear don't wear sunglasses
[00:55:47] Permanerd:
and check out Orange Horizon. Yep. And I was thinking about Let me get the doing this as well for the town square. Also on takemystats.com.dotcom. And I can't vouch for this, but it would be maybe in your your benefit to reach out to, rehash heating LLC. And they offer they offer, heating, I I guess. This is I might just be making this up. But, turning miners into heaters, and that flows with what we were talking about, heatpunkery from earlier. Heatpunkery. And it looks like they've got a summer sale where you take 50,000 sats off all in stock minors.
So maybe give them a a gander as well. Don't forget to use Are they on the opposite? Know. I just saw this when I was looking at takemysats.com. Oh. And it just it fit in with the heatpunkery conversation. Don't forget to use the promo code YADA or wave to them and tell them that that we said hi with any of these products.
[00:57:06] Oshi:
Cool. I like it. Was there anything else we should touch on? We have reached in the hour mark here. I don't think so. I mean, I think that
[00:57:16] Permanerd:
I think I went through. Oh, if you've got a minute, I did I did Yeah. Set up a a Haven Relay, which is a Noster Relay. And I had set it up before on a server that I'm running in my office just as sort of a way to back up. Well, for one, to set up a relay and for two to back up my own messages just to see how that worked. And then I've last night, because I'm the Nostril clients in general have been causing me a headache for a couple weeks now. And it's come to a head as far as Nostril DMs. And anybody that's used Nostril understands that the DMs are wholly unreliable and can It can be a pain in the butt. So, I did some research and then figured out that I can use this relay for DMs and inbox and private messages and outbox and things like that.
And so I did set it up. But, you know, I just added those relays to the different well, Amethyst and Yaquihone. I don't know if it's going to make a difference if if, like, there's one I don't know, man. If there's one relay that is is taking the DMs, I don't understand why I can't just use it and have DMs come to wherever I want them to come to. But for some reason, I don't know if it's that simple. You have it hooked up now, you said? Maybe I should, give you a DM. Yeah. Guess so. I mean, I I I've gotten some other ones. If if if anybody sent me a DM a DM on Nostrad and I haven't got back to you, it's because it's just flaky, and I don't I think I've lost a few. I think people aren't getting the ones I've sent. Or if you know more about these things than than I do and and possibly Oshi as well, let us know. I mean, is there there's gotta be this is the the one of the most complicated things about Noster is just the relay setup. And, like, we were talking about Primal.
There's something to be said about somebody just taking care of all that back end for you, which they do. And, again, I'm not I don't use it, but, you know, I it'd be nice to have a little more a little more definition on what relays do or how to set it up to where you can have a relay list, and then that just populates any client that you want to use and you should be able to have a similar experience, I would imagine. Yeah. Yeah. It it would be great if just things just worked, you know? And I'm not holding it against any of the developers or I understand that that No. We're kinda riding on the the cutting edge. You know? As my mom always said, if if you're not living on the edge, you're taking up too much space.
Brilliant. She didn't say that, but it's actually from, it's from the what is it called? Vegetable, oh, vegetable sound system. Guy's from Australia. The formidable vegetable sound system, I think. And it's a yeah. He talks about permaculture, sings about permaculture, and has gardening songs. And check that out too. And that was one of the lines from his his songs.
[01:00:45] Oshi:
That's cool. I ended up did watching,
[01:00:49] Permanerd:
that movie you recognized? Nice. The Castle? Yeah. It's good. It's really funny. Yeah. You should watch it again. That that one, I think it takes about 10 times before you start seeing everything that's going on. Yeah. What do you know about Ned? Tell him he's tell him he's dreaming. Yeah. Tell him he's dreaming. Yeah. Ivor will chime Ivor will chime in about this, I'm sure. Because this episode is certainly going straight to the pool room. Yeah.
[01:01:18] Oshi:
The pool room. Yes.
[01:01:20] Permanerd:
So good. So good. You gotta watch Brazil. Yeah. I've got it real when I get an opportunity. Cool, man. Well, where can the good folks of podcast land find you?
[01:01:33] Oshi:
Well, noster only for now. I may do the markets. We'll see. Tune in on that. And then, website is oshegood.us. I've got a few jars of some things. I've got the coffee crunchy. I've got I'm actually pretty low, but yeah. Just check the website. You can also find all the YADA episodes there. So it's a good resource to just kinda check-in. Other than that oh, then the preorder for the t shirts that I was doing a couple weeks ago. Those should be going out relatively soon. So thank you for your patience if you preorder a t shirt. Very cool. Thank you.
Other than that, that's all for me. What do got on your end?
[01:02:20] Permanerd:
Sats4snacks.com. That's the number four. I think I've got everything, I did a couple days ago. I spent a portion of the day making more comfrey salves, so that is back in stock. And I've got the freeze dried ice cream sandwiches, which are a hit. So I've got actually, I've got another batch in the freeze dryer right now. But I haven't got them on the website because I'm a troglodyte and have not gotten around to it yet. Hopefully I'll be able to do that. I don't know if I'll be able to do it today even. I've gotta, I gotta go to the Big Smoke, take the kid to art class. Oh.
The Big What's that? I think that's a Canadianism. Just the big city. So they go like, Calgary will be the big smoke or the yeah. I like that. Yeah. Taking him to the Big Smoke. And and then tomorrow is baseball, and then Sunday is actually, back up to Comox to do a doubleheader for baseball. And our house team is still abominable. Yeah. We got a couple weeks left and then start getting into summer ball, I think, as well. Eye on the ball, kid. Eye on the ball. So, yeah, that's about it for me, Nostril Only, as well. Hit us up. Send us an email. Send us a boost. Send us notes on Nostril. Send us carrier pigeon, smoke signals, you know, whatever will take it all.
No DMs, though. Those are through. Just to put a put a, full stop on it. I don't think that makes sense at all. But we completely value feedback and questions, and it seems like, you know, we can almost mold this show helping people and answering questions and not just not just speaking at people, but, you know, having integrating conversations. And I know that that for me, that's ideal. Like, this is this is perfect. If you can send questions and and we can have you know, they we've got the circular economy of Bitcoin, and we can create that circular communication of decentralized podcast and and user feedback and questions.
[01:04:43] Oshi:
Yep. For the common man, by the common man. Absolutely.
[01:04:48] Permanerd:
And until next time, just remember that you are the algorithm.
Cold open, introductions, and summer heat banter
Show cadence and Value for Value explained
Reading boostagrams: LocalBitcoiners, sats, and whales
Shipping costs, BTCPay pricing, and US orders
International shipping challenges and packaging tales
More boosts: meetups, Columbia SC, and leaderboard fun
Heatpunk defined: using miner heat productively
Greenhouse mining story and safety with electricity
Boosts wrap and first listener email tease
Listener email: accounting, barter rules, and POS
Canadian tax treatment: sales, holdings, and capital gains
Download stats, geography shout‑outs, and growth
The Lykem Jar: filler word counts and sats penalty
Transition ditty and meetup segment setup
Comox Valley Bitcoin meetup: selling goods for sats
First Lightning experiences and onboarding moments
Wallets at meetups: WoS, Cake, and Phoenix
Notable attendees and building local resources
Farmers market considerations and setup hurdles
Herbal teas, foraging, and freeze‑drying at home
Permaculture principles overview (1/12): Observe & interact
Water, access, structure: designing from patterns
Bitcoin x permaculture: shared spirit and overlap
Town Square: natural sunscreen shout‑out
Heatpunkery merch: miners as heaters and sats deals
Haven relay for Nostr DMs and relay reliability woes
Permaculture music, film refs, and cultural asides
Where to find the hosts: sites, merch, and updates
Closing: feedback channels and you are the algorithm
